Informing, Criticising and Making Fun of the Beliefs and Practices of Mormonism

About Bugging Mo’s

I’m sure there are some who visit Bugging Mo’s who wonder why I mock the Mormon religion and try to put doubts in the minds of the faithful. Well, the answer is a simple one: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints pisses me off something chronic, and its holier-than-thou members too. There! I said it! And, let me add, because it made a mockery of me at a time when I needed it most.

At the height of my cognitive dissonance I was made to feel like I was an object of ridicule. Sincere concerns that I had about the Mormon Church were held in derision by my local ward leaders, men who, theologically, should have had my back and should’ve known better. Friends, even, who I thought would have at least supported me at a stressful time. I soon learned that I was being naive.

Upon sharing my concerns, I was accused of out and out apostasy when, in fact, I hadn’t yet abandoned my beliefs. Far from it, and I had no intention of doing so. I genuinely believed in the LDS Church and I honestly felt that I had a testimony of Joseph Smith’s divine calling, but I was in a very difficult place and needed help in understanding some issues relating to church history. Instead I was told not to make any more contact with my fellow ward members because I was in a state of apostasy. I was gobsmacked by this, and hurt. And more confused than ever. The Bishop is supposed to leave the 99 who are safe, and go in search of the one who is lost. Me!

Being treated in such a way increased my dissonance ten-fold. I was now abandoned and alone. Left to reach conclusions on my own. I guess I could’ve done some mental-gymnastics and reached some sort of justification which would have reduced the dissonance but any reduction would’ve been fleeting. I could not lie to myself and believe that lie.

Consequently, the Bishop’s disrespectful treatment of me was a pivatol event that lead me to question whether God does in fact give people stewardships, if he has a church on the earth today through which he communicates his will and, some may think that this is throwing out the baby with the bath water, if he is even real at all? Considering God’s absence throughout my struggle, despite my continual reaching out to him, self-debating his actuality became the next logical step.

It’s a long story, and yes, I have a bloody great, huge chip on my shoulder. It’s been there a while, and I have no intention of removing it. It reminds me of who I am today and the mistakes I made in the past by believing the Mormon lie. Mistakes that I won’t make again.

Mormons are informed in their temples that “God will not be mocked” and I’m saying now that I won’t be mocked either. Mocking has consequences. Hence this vblog.

Why a videoblog, you might ask? Well, I think that there are many videos on the web that discredit – in part – the LDS church, that add another nail to its coffin. A lot of good videos. So I thought that I would attempt to gather many of them together into one place to widen the net that is Anti-Mormonism. This vblog becomes yet another tool to combat the ‘I’m a Mormon’ ad blitz and to shout FOUL at the Church’s attempts, sometimes smacking of desperation, to appear mainstream and unpeculiar and to contradict the whitewash that’s masquerading as official church history.

Time for a bit of your own medicine. Enjoy.

Mo’ Bugger

37 responses

  1. Hero Spector

    I’m always curious as to why people who maintain sites like yours even bother. They tend to fixate on Mormons, JW’s, Scientologists etc. because, for some reason, it’s easier to be a bigot regarding more seemingly unorthodox faiths than, say, Judaism where one would incur instant charges of anti-Semitism. But the thrust is the same. Substitute “Jews” for “Mormonism” in your “about” page and the thrust of it is appalling. Why do you care? And why maintain anonymity? If you’re so public about your contempt for a faith which is clearly mainstream — with 6 million American adherents it’s hard to call it anything else — why hide your identity? Seems to me that who you are and what your beef is is crucial to evaluating whether or not the site is objective or whether you just have an axe to grind. I think you owe it to visitors to explain precisely who you are and what your angle is.

    July 12, 2011 at 6:00 am

    • ***I’m always curious as to why people who maintain sites like yours even bother.***

      And I’m curious why individuals like yourself even bother being “always curious” about such things when it’s obvious from the sentence following on from the one above that you think that you already have the answer to the very thing that you’re curious about. So what is there to be curious about, really?

      ***They tend to fixate on Mormons, JW’s, Scientologists etc. because, for some reason, it’s easier to be a bigot regarding more seemingly unorthodox faiths than, say, Judaism where one would incur instant charges of anti-Semitism.***

      C’mon mate, you seriously can’t expect me to believe that you have intimate knowledge regarding the motives of individuals who maintain websites, which must surely number in the thousands, that are critical of “Mormons, JW’s, Scientologists etc.” I don’t think that you’ve enquired of the thousands of individuals who run sites that are critical of religious belief regarding their reasons for adversely analyzing and evaluating said religions. You prefer instead to toy with an unreasonable judgment formed without an examination of the facts. Your condemnation is ludicrous, and you should get that bloody great beam of yours looked at.

      Ignorantly, you assume that I “fixate on Mormons” because “it’s easier to be a bigot regarding more seemingly unorthodox faiths than, say, Judaism where one would incur instant charges of anti-Semitism.” I can’t speak for the thousands who you number me among, unlike yourself who has no qualms over spreading inaccurances about a large number of people who you don’t know from Adam, but I will say that I think that most of the people in question fall outside of your prejudiced and ultra-simplistic reasoning.

      You know next to nothing about my history as a devout Mormon, nor my long and tedious journey out of Mormonism, which I’m not getting into because I simply can’t be bothered and, to be blunt, you don’t appear to be someone who I would enjoy having a conversation with. That previous sentence alone should make it immediately clear to you why I target the Mormon Church and not Judaism, and it has nothing to do with finding an “easier” way “to be a bigot” or avoiding “charges of anti-Semitism.” But it has everything to do with the fact that Mormonism is what I know.

      ***…than, say, Judaism where one would incur instant charges of anti-Semitism. But the thrust is the same. Substitute “Jews” for “Mormonism” in your “about” page and the thrust of it is appalling.***

      Replacing my words with words that feed your own intolerances in a vain attempt to show me in a bad light reveals more about you than it does me. You’ve gone from disingenuously wondering why I would maintain such a site as Bugging Mo’s to incorrectly judging and condemning me without even a shred of evidence and now, after only a few short sentences, you are saying that I’m someone who would discriminate against and be physically hostile toward a group of people by concluding that I rightly belong with those who are anti-Semitic. After all, according to you: “the thrust is the same.”

      I don’t think I’ve ever been compared to the Nazis before. I’d find the correlation highly offensive if it wasn’t for the fact that only a complete and utter nitwit could conjure up such a thing out of nothing. Only a very cruel mind would reduce a complete stranger to the level of the most widely recognized image of modern evil.

      ***Why do you care?***

      I only care about widening the net of Anti-Mormonism for reasons that are self-explanatory, to save other poor saps from making the same mistakes that I did. And anyway, I’ve already explained myself in the blurb above.

      ***And why maintain anonymity? If you’re so public about your contempt for a faith which is clearly mainstream — with 6 million American adherents it’s hard to call it anything else — why hide your identity?***

      It’s called an ‘online identity’ – look it up!

      ***Seems to me that who you are and what your beef is is crucial to evaluating whether or not the site is objective or whether you just have an axe to grind. I think you owe it to visitors to explain precisely who you are and what your angle is.***

      I seriously doubt that you read my ‘About’ page, or you at least had trouble understanding it. It’s clear what I’m about on there, and nowhere have I claimed to be unbiased.

      Lastly, I reserve the right to remain anonymous. It has no bearing on the videos on this blog.

      July 15, 2011 at 4:00 pm

      • Jakob

        The more you oppress the Holy Church, the faster it will grow. It is prophecy. The dispicable lies conjured that you so readily believed in caused you to leave the Church. I love Joseph Smith, and I condemn you for spewing forth such vile things against the truth. HE was killed for what he knew. You cannot disprove this, nor anything for that matter. You have no proof. The only history we have was the untampered history written by Joseph himself and those who were truthful allies to him. Shame on you, you seek to disprove and mock the Savior himself when you persecute his Church. This Church will role forth as a stone that will fill the whole Earth. Can you deny prophecy? You know that you cannot. It is fixed eternally and you can only try at something impossible. Because of the false acounts you have enslaved your miserable self to, you have stained your spirit. Yet, you can repent and come forth unto Jesus Christ. I know that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is true. I know it. I cannot deny what I have felt. I hate persecution, and God hates it, but I forgive you nevertheless. I love your soul, and it is now my desire to turn you back unto the light of the Savior. The Book of Mormon is a Testament of Jesus Christ, and Joseph Smith was a man “void of offence toward man and God”! If this is not true, I am not a Latter-Day Saint.

        April 7, 2013 at 10:38 pm

    • Hero Spector – looks like you are anonymous, too.

      February 10, 2013 at 9:04 pm

      • Hero Spector

        I’m not the one with a website, putting myself out there.

        April 7, 2013 at 12:54 pm

  2. Hero Spector

    Thanks for the reply — and if my inquiry appeared hostile, my apologies – it wasn’t meant to be. I sense a certain hostility in your reply, which is unfortunate. As a researcher I’ve a fair amount of experience with and interest in vanity sites and blogs dedicated to the denigration or deconstruction of religious faiths. I simply find it curious when people refuse to share the reasons for creating such sites. Since “faith” cannot be proved or disproved, you can’t really “win” a debate on the subject. Faith is experiential and purely personal. So it matters who you are and what your personal experience is. If people are going to ascribe any validity to your site and your point of view, it will not be because your site is “persuasive.” They need to know where you’re coming from. You speak of your “history as a devout Mormon” and your “long and tedious journey out of Mormonism” yet you refuse to get into it because you “simply can’t be bothered.” I’m sorry, but that’s a cop out. You can clearly be bothered to maintain a rather elaborate blog and site. I think you owe it to visitors to be a big more honest and forthcoming and share why this is so personal to you. Otherwise you’re simply going to be viewed as an ex-Mormon with an axe to grind yet who “can’t be bothered” to detail precisely what that axe is. That inevitably comes off as shady and unreliable, which ultimately undermines your stated goal “to save other poor saps from making the same mistakes that I did.” I respectfully suggest that you take a little bit of time and share your story instead of endlessly reposting videos that don’t seem to coalesce into any kind point.

    Your “about” statement says “The reason for this videoblog is simple: to debunk the beliefs and practices of Mormonism through scientific enquiry, psychological insight, serious investigation, first-person accounts, humour and often, my favourite, good ol’ ridicule.”

    Surely you have to realize that no faith has ever been or can ever be “debunked” through any means, least of all those you enumerate. You can only debunk that which claims empirical proof. That which relies on faith cannot, by definition, be debunked. You can only rebut their experiential claims with your own, which means being a little more forthcoming regarding your own experience.

    Then, and only then, will visitors be able to decide whether or not to trust your perspective.

    July 16, 2011 at 7:23 am

    • ***I sense a certain hostility in your reply, which is unfortunate***

      More annoyance than hostility due to your confrontational statements. But I can be blunt, so I guess that could be construed as hostility.

      ***I simply find it curious when people refuse to share the reasons for creating such sites. Since “faith” cannot be proved or disproved, you can’t really “win” a debate on the subject. Faith is experiential and purely personal. So it matters who you are and what your personal experience is. If people are going to ascribe any validity to your site and your point of view, it will not be because your site is “persuasive.” They need to know where you’re coming from***

      Firstly, I haven’t refused to share the reasons why I created this vblog. I’ve been open about my motives from the very beginning. It’s all there in the blurb above. It’s clear for anyone to read. And I think that most people who read the ‘About’ page and watch the videos on this site understand where I’m coming from and what I’m about, but there will always be some that will strain at a gnat while ignoring the bigger picture.

      And secondly, I have no interest in trying to win a debate on the subject of faith. If anything, it’s the devotee that needs to win me over as he is making all of the claims. The onus is on him, or her, as the case may be. I didn’t create this vblog to argue religion, but I understand that that very thing may occur from time to time, especially as I purposely try to provoke Mormons.

      I still maintain that who I am and what my story is is unimportant. I understand that you disagree, but maybe that’s because you’re viewing the purpose of this site slightly skew-whiff.

      There are videos on this blog that are more persuasive than I could ever be. And, to be honest, I’m not sure that persuasiveness is something that I’m really after. I thoroughly understand the hold that religion can have on a person of faith, so I’m not naively seeking after complete effectiveness by compelling argument. I would much prefer to chip away at or sow seeds in a person’s psyche by posting videos that I assuredly know will bug Mormons, not all Mormons, but the right ones. Hence, the name of this vblog.

      My deconversion didn’t happen after reading or hearing a persuasive argument, it was the little nuggets of information that grew rapidly in significance that did the most damage to my belief-system. These innocuous titbits – at least, I thought they were harmless – lingered in my mind long after any convincing story or strong case against the Divine being involved in the restoration of the Church had been rationalised into oblivion.

      ***You speak of your “history as a devout Mormon” and your “long and tedious journey out of Mormonism” yet you refuse to get into it because you “simply can’t be bothered.” I’m sorry, but that’s a cop out.***

      Bugging Mo’s isn’t about me and my journey out of Mormonism. Consequently, I don’t feel I need to write my story on this blog. But some of the videos I’ve posted to this site do encapsulate aspects of my journey and things I’ve learnt along the way. My intention is for the videos to speak for themselves, not for me. I just gather them together in one place for people to make of them what they will.

      ***You can clearly be bothered to maintain a rather elaborate blog and site.***

      I don’t know what’s elaborate about it. If anything, it’s rather plain and simple.

      ***I respectfully suggest that you take a little bit of time and share your story instead of endlessly reposting videos that don’t seem to coalesce into any kind point.***

      On the contrary, the point is: don’t take the LDS Church on face value. Look behind the facade and examine it from different angles. Don’t just get your information from the Church’s publicity machine, but dig a little deeper. The videos expose the many realities of their creators and perhaps the one thing they have in common is that they highlight that the Church isn’t necessarily what it claims to be or how it portrays itself. They offer alternative perceptions in opposition to the official line regurgitated week in and week out at church.

      July 16, 2011 at 5:54 pm

  3. Hero Spector

    You say “I still maintain that who I am and what my story is is unimportant. I understand that you disagree, but maybe that’s because you’re viewing the purpose of this site slightly skew-whiff.”

    Quite the contrary. As a professional journalist, I’m addressing the very serious matter of legitimacy. To suggest that your personal motives are not relevant and that the site’s content should speak for itself is really quite naive. The internet has no shortage of pro/con sites on any number of issues. Those that are viewed as legitimate are the most transparent where any inherent bias can be evaluated by a reader or viewer. You are asking visitors to your site to not merely overlook your biases but to pretend that they don’t matter. But they do. They always matter. It’s why journalists often recuse themselves from covering certain stories. No matter how well written an article or how well covered a story, having a personal axe to grind will always raise questions of bias and invite accusations of imbalance. If this is therapy for you, then fine. But if you expect anyone to take your site seriously, to give you any credibility on the subject, who you are and what your personal story is… that’s essential to establishing credibility. Otherwise, it simply looks like you’re hiding something on purpose. And that will only eviscerate credibility.

    July 16, 2011 at 6:09 pm

    • ***To suggest that your personal motives are not relevant and that the site’s content should speak for itself is really quite naive.***

      You’re misunderstanding my words, or deliberately reading more into them than is necessary. The quote that you’re responding to refers to my anonymity and exit story only. I’ve never said, or even suggested, that my motives are irrelevant. In fact, my motives have always been clear. That which colours the choice of videos that I post on Bugging Mo’s is only relevant to that end and informs visitors of the type of content that they will find on this site.

      ***You are asking visitors to your site to not merely overlook your biases but to pretend that they don’t matter.***

      Rubbish. If I expected people to overlook my biases then I would’nt have made them so evident. It’s obvious that I have no liking for the LDS Church. But a detailed decription of how I came to be antagonistic is, as far as I’m concerned, irrelevant. I don’t care what you think about that, or what your conclusions are regarding myself and Bugging Mo’s. I’m sufficiently open about the impulse that drives me, I recognise that the site is imbalanced, and no amount of argument from you is gonna cause me to go into detail about the circumstances that were the catalyst for my antipathy towards the Church.

      July 17, 2011 at 2:00 pm

  4. Hero Spector

    And just an additional point to clarify — you say that you merely aggregate videos and let them speak for themselves. But they don’t. If that were really your intent, you would be transparent as to who you are and aggregate all videos, both pro and con. You would provide links to pro-Mormon videos to let people genuinely evaluate all available material. But the act of selectively aggregating only those that support your point of view begs the question as to who you are and what your point of view is, how it was formed and why people should ascribe that view any credibility. The fact that you hide that, yet expect to be taken seriously as an aggregator, is problematic. And if, as you suggest, you’re really not concerned about bugging all Mormons but just the seemingly low-hanging fruit, then that suggests either an inability or an unwillingness to formulate an argument or an attack that would be effective against any but the already weak. Which, again, undermines your legitimacy. You should ask yourself this — if you yourself were researching a subject and looking for useful and objective information, would you accept anything less than full journalistic transparency? Of course not. No one would. And that is why your site really smacks more of vanity than seriousness.

    July 16, 2011 at 6:18 pm

  5. Hero Spector

    Final note — in the interest of transparency of motive – the reason I am taking an interest in your back story is because I am personally of the opinion — and my research has consistently shown this to be more true than not — that people who rebel against religious institutions and traditions only to subsequently dedicate time and energy to attacking and discrediting the tradition to which they once belonged, are typically motivated less by issues of doctrine than matters of culture. In other words, it’s not so much about the belief system as about the endemic social pressures of the culture which the faith tradition has fostered. The two are often assumed to be inseparable particularly in hierarchical faiths like Catholicism, but that’s incorrect. Catholic doctrine — or Mormon doctrine — is a very different thing from Catholic — or Mormon — culture. I have yet to encounter anyone who, when pressed, has confessed, “I had no problems with the culture of (fill in the blank), I actually quite enjoyed being a part of it. But it was the belief system, the doctrines I simply couldn’t accept.” To the contrary, almost every “exit story” begins with a negative cultural experience, a personal offense, a clash with another individual or individuals, a sense of alienation, an inability to fit in, a lack of acceptance, etc. So in light of the evidence, when people such as you maintain anonymity but devote years and years and years to attacking the tradition from which they exited, one has to ask what feeds such lasting animosity? My evidence consistently indicates that it is rarely a matter of doctrine and almost always a function of culture.

    July 16, 2011 at 6:39 pm

    • ***…when people such as you maintain anonymity but devote years and years and years to attacking the tradition from which they exited, one has to ask what feeds such lasting animosity? My evidence consistently indicates that it is rarely a matter of doctrine and almost always a function of culture.***

      Years and years? I only started Bugging Mo’s in January of this year.

      When somebody joins the LDS Church they embrace the whole package – culture, doctrines and history. That’s if they’re a serious convert as I was. I was somebody who tolerated Mormon culture because I believed with all my heart that the doctrines were divine in origin and that God had bestowed on the Church the authority to unlock the doors through which a person could return to His presence. No other church had that authority and so, for me, the doctrines were always pre-eminent.

      Mormon doctrines arise out of its history, so when I began to research that history in detail and found so many discrepancies with the Church’s official version, the doctrines lost their legitimacy and power to keep me in the Church. The culture was never an issue in my deconversion. It was just something that became irrelevant after I rejected the doctrines.

      July 17, 2011 at 1:54 pm

  6. Hero Spector

    Thanks for being at least a little more forthcoming. I really don’t have any personal interest in getting you to open up more — I’m simply pointing out that when you create a site to purposely antagonize your former church, but refuse to divulge more about your own personal experience, it makes you look cagey — as if you have something to hide, as if you’re afraid that divulging more personal information would somehow undermine your efforts or open you up to personal attacks. So in the end, that tactic makes your site functionally irrelevant. If you want to be taken seriously you need to either be forthcoming about your experience or be forthcoming about why you can’t be forthcoming. But to claim that your personal experience is irrelevant simply doesn’t wash, particularly when you insist that “no amount of argument” is going to get you to open up. That just further reinforces the appearance that you’re hiding something. Your personal experience isn’t just relevant, it’s the only thing that’s relevant since religion is, by definition, experiential. It seems to me that your site would be much more powerful if you related precisely what historical discrepancies led you out of the church – and what precipitated that research in the first place – rather than simply aggregating a hodge-podge of videos from YouTube. Personally, I find it hard to believe that simply discovering historical inaccuracies would foster the kind of animosity you harbor — I’ve known many people who have left various religious traditions (Mormonism, Catholicism, Judaism, Buddhism)… and they simply leave. Those who have a lingering antagonism usually trace it to an event much more fractious, a personal offense, some kind of injurious moment. I’m not asking you to necessarily convey as much, but it’s fairly clear to me that there’s still something you’re not divulging and, for whatever reason, don’t want to even discuss. Again, if this is all some kind of therapy for you, that’s fine. But given how you’ve chosen to frame your attack, I seriously doubt that your stated goal of “Bugging Mo’s” will gain much traction at all. It’s simply too easy to discredit you.

    July 17, 2011 at 10:44 pm

  7. Mocking Mormons is a favourite passtime of mine!

    April 6, 2013 at 5:20 pm

    • The Mormon personality invites mockery.

      April 7, 2013 at 7:41 am

      • Did you ever post on Fox (cough) News message boards back when they actually allowed comments?

        April 7, 2013 at 12:31 pm

  8. Hero Spector

    Let’s substitute some words and see how those phrases play.

    “Mocking Jews is a favourite pastime of mine!”

    “The black personality invites mockery.”

    Yeah, you’re both bigots. I’d love to know what the “Mormon personality” is. Talk about gross generalizations and stereotypes. 14 million people who all have the same personality. Right.

    April 7, 2013 at 10:54 am

    • 14 million Mormons? Really?

      August 30, 2013 at 9:35 pm

      • Hero Spector

        http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/facts-and-stats

        August 31, 2013 at 12:20 am

    • Dale Husband

      Hero Spector, you call opponents of Mormonism bigots? The truth is that there is so much in Mormonism that is itself bigoted and downright stupid that only an ignorant person would NOT mock it! And that ignorance is reflected in the delusional behavior of Mormons like you!

      December 30, 2013 at 1:33 pm

      • Hero Spector

        Spoken like a true 13-year-old boy with too much time on his hands to troll the internet insulting people he wouldn’t have the courage to confront in an actual face-to-face meeting.

        Well done. Excellent rebuttal. Scholarly stuff. Bravo.

        December 31, 2013 at 1:49 am

      • Dale Husband

        Hero Spector said of me
        “Spoken like a true 13-year-old boy with too much time on his hands to troll the internet insulting people he wouldn’t have the courage to confront in an actual face-to-face meeting.”

        Which only proves his arrogance and ignorance, which is typical of Mormons. For the record, I am anti-Mormon and proud of it, because Mormonism is nothing but lies and I have an ethical obligation to oppose lies when I see them, period. Hero is a liar, asserting things he has no evidence for and no reason to believe.

        December 31, 2013 at 9:33 pm

      • Hero Spector

        Dale Husband. You also clearly lack a sense of irony. But keep it up. You’re a wonderful evangelist for your opponents. With an attitude like that, please let me know if you’re available to be a spokesperson for cigarettes. We’ll have people giving up smoking in droves.

        December 31, 2013 at 11:27 pm

      • Dale Husband

        Hero Spector:
        Then we have established beyond a reasonable doubt that you are not to be taken seriously, just as you refuse to take opponents of Mormonism seriously. But life is not a joke and following a blatantly false religion like Mormonism founded by a self-evident fraud like Joseph Smith will lead you either to eternal damnation or nothing at all. Enjoy your pathetic existence.

        January 2, 2014 at 12:51 am

      • Hero Spector

        Dale Husband. Enjoy your flame war. If you’re trying to singlehandedly take down the faith of 15 million people, you would probably do well to start by getting the word out on a website that’s actually widely read by people. You’re in the netherworld over here.

        Otherwise, I’ll leave you with this thought. Mother Teresa was once asked if she’d attend an anti-war rally. Her reply, “Get back to me when yo have a pro-peace rally.”

        It’s easy to be an angry critic and tear things down. Hard to be the bringer of good news who offers people something that makes their lives better, happier and more enriching. If this is how you follow the holidays and start the New Year… maybe you need a refresher on what kindness, courtesy, good cheer and respect actually mean. We need fewer mean people in the world and a little more kindness and dignity. I won’t be playing in your swamp.

        January 2, 2014 at 4:30 am

      • Dale Husband

        How am I supposed to react to something that is as fraudulent and despicable as Mormonism? If con artistry like this was done in any other field, would it even be tolerated by most people? Attacking me for being angry about it is like attacking a starving man for being hungry!

        It does not matter if 15 million people follow a pack of lies. Also, Mother Teresa was not a Mormon, so quoting her out of context to justify your attitude is dishonest. And I believe I have plenty of kindness, courtesy, good cheer, dignity, and respect…..I just do not waste them on people like Hero Spector who clearly do not deserve any of it.

        January 3, 2014 at 5:35 pm

      • Hero Spector

        Dale… since you’re so engaged by this “con artistry,” then by all means… take your proof to the court of public opinion. Get on talk shows. Write a book. Start a blog that will invariably be frequented by billions of people eager to learn what you’ve discovered that millions of others haven’t.

        But you’re wasting your time here. Nobody comes to this site.

        And I wasn’t quoting Mother Teresa out of context. Her position, which is mine, is that in any given situation, if you believe a wrong is being done, the better tactic is to present a positive alternative rather than simply being “anti” something. Your assertions of Mormonism’s “fraud” are nothing new. In fact, you’ve done nothing but bitch and moan here, offering nothing by way of proof, argument, etc. Not that I’m interested in engaging you. I’m not. I assure you that all your objections are debated in a thousand other places on the internet, pro and con. And at the end of the day, as with all other faiths, the “proof” one way or the other… doesn’t exist. It’s a matter of faith. You believe or you don’t. So unless you feel that Mormonism is doing you demonstrable harm personally, just crawl back in your little hole. Otherwise, if your assertion that Mormonism is “con artistry” is true, then you should be taking the matter to legal authorities. Fraudulent endeavors, especially those that collect money, are against the law. I’m sure the federal authorities would love to hear your proof.

        January 3, 2014 at 5:47 pm

      • Dale Husband

        “Mormons don’t believe Native American tribes are descended from Hebrews.”

        Hero Spector, we have already established you as a liar, no need for you to confirm it even more. Or perhaps they no longer preach that absurdity? That would be commendable, but…

        “the civilization in the Book of Mormon that is alleged to be descended from itinerant Hebrews becomes extinct. Hence, logically speaking, all peoples who actually were descended from Hebrews in the Book of Mormon ceased to exist long, long, long ago. ”

        And yet Jesus is said to have visited that people to preach the gospel to them. If they later died out completely, logically speaking, his mission was a failure. The gospel did not save them at all.

        “The area in which the Book of Mormon takes place is also quite likely a very limited area of only a couple hundred square miles… not the entirety of the Americas. ”

        Ah, that explains the complete lack of evidence for the events described in the Book of Mormon. So where was this tiny area? Are you familiar with the many cases in which the Mormon Church had to change its dogmas to avoid losing most of its members? Like the case of polygamy, for example. That alone destroys its credibility. How can a church founded by someone who practiced polygamy excommunicate anyone who does it now? Because it is run by hypocrites. Ironically, the so-called Mormon fundamentalists are being far more consistent in their stupidity than the mainstream Mormons. But the treatment of girls and women in such communities proves only one thing: that the men running them are perverts who practice sexual slavery disguised as marriage. Muslims often do this too, of course. It stands to reason that the early Mormon leaders, including the “Prophet” Joseph Smith, were also perverts.

        “People who get off on anonymously trolling the internet so they can insult and denigrate and exercise the darker elements of their personality which they don’t dare exercise in day to day interpersonal reactions suffer from a serious personality disorder that could prove dangerous someday.”

        First, I am not anonymous. The name you see on my posts is my real one and that name and the Circle H logo you see is one I use all over the internet. I do not hide my true self. Second, engaging in personal attacks like that only damages YOUR credibility more than mine. It is nothing but tone trolling. It’s really all you can do because you cannot face the truth about your religion.

        “I’ve never met anyone who ever won an argument or persuaded someone to their point of view by cursing, insulting or venting anger and bile. ”

        I’m not trying to persuade you of anything, because I already know you are immune to logic, truth, or any sense of honor. I’m just putting you and all other Mormons on notice now and forever that your bullcrap will not stand with me. Get over it! Others who are undecided about Mormonism can see these comments too, as well as my other statements about Mormonism here:
        http://dalehusband.com/category/religion/mormonism/

        January 5, 2014 at 7:57 am

      • Dale Husband

        Hero Spector, YOU came here first and attacked my ally MoBugger, and I responded to that to defend him, so EVERYTHING you said in your last comment was a lie. You came here to defend Mormonism because you were so outraged by MoBugger’s blog that you felt he was a target for you. Your rhetoric is as phony as your religion and it’s all you have. I have no desire to meet you, or any other Mormon hypocrite, face to face, unless I can take a long shower afterwards to cleanse myself. Goodbye and good riddance!

        January 5, 2014 at 9:43 pm

    • Dale Husband

      Hero Spector bull$#itted some more:
      “since you’re so engaged by this “con artistry,” then by all means… take your proof to the court of public opinion.”
      I believe that is the purpose of this blog we are commenting on.

      “But you’re wasting your time here. Nobody comes to this site.”
      Look up the word, “nobody” in a dictionary, liar.

      “in any given situation, if you believe a wrong is being done, the better tactic is to present a positive alternative rather than simply being “anti” something.”
      Good idea! How about: http://americanhumanist.org/

      ” In fact, you’ve done nothing but bitch and moan here, offering nothing by way of proof, argument, etc. Not that I’m interested in engaging you. I’m not.”
      First, you HAVE been engaging me, liar. Second, you really want me to spend the next several hours detailing how worthless Mormonism is? Gee, where do I begin?

      “And at the end of the day, as with all other faiths, the “proof” one way or the other… doesn’t exist. It’s a matter of faith. You believe or you don’t. ”
      Taking that claim to its (il)logical conclusion, we might as well say that the belief that the Earth is flat and at the center of the universe may also be a matter of faith, right? NO! There ARE matters that can conclusively been proven false by empirical evidence, including the Mormon claim that Native American tribes were descended from ancient Hebrews. DNA testing of both Jews and Native American debunks that! Native Americans are most closely related to the various Mongoloid peoples of Central Asia. Jews, at least those that are not converts to the religion from other races, are not Mongoloids.

      “if your assertion that Mormonism is “con artistry” is true, then you should be taking the matter to legal authorities. Fraudulent endeavors, especially those that collect money, are against the law. I’m sure the federal authorities would love to hear your proof.”
      You know as well as I do that the First Amendment protects freedom of religion, even clearly false ones like yours.

      January 5, 2014 at 1:22 am

      • Hero Spector

        Mormons don’t believe Native American tribes are descended from Hebrews. So much for your actually researching the faith and the claims you allege to debunk.

        Google is available for you to remedy your misinformation. But I’ll give you a hint: the civilization in the Book of Mormon that is alleged to be descended from itinerant Hebrews becomes extinct. Hence, logically speaking, all peoples who actually were descended from Hebrews in the Book of Mormon ceased to exist long, long, long ago.

        The book also never maintains — nor have any LDS scholars — that there weren’t already Asiatic peoples in the Americas. The area in which the Book of Mormon takes place is also quite likely a very limited area of only a couple hundred square miles… not the entirety of the Americas.

        So instead of being nasty and mean and misinformed… how about being kind and courteous to someone for a change? People who get off on anonymously trolling the internet so they can insult and denigrate and exercise the darker elements of their personality which they don’t dare exercise in day to day interpersonal reactions suffer from a serious personality disorder that could prove dangerous someday. So please… go find someone to love and be kind to. And try to refrain from this kind of negativity, insult and denigration. It serves no constructive purpose. I’ve never met anyone who ever won an argument or persuaded someone to their point of view by cursing, insulting or venting anger and bile.

        Enjoy your week.

        January 5, 2014 at 5:17 am

      • Hero Spector

        Dale. Listen. Whatever narcissistic thrill you get from beating your chest digitally, I’m not going to be a party to it. Anyone “investigating” Mormonism has plenty of material all over the internet to consult. Whatever your issues, they’re your issues.

        This is my last response to you since it’s clear you do this more for gratification than anything else. I have a life to live. I’m not going to waste it yanking your chain. For someone so dedicated to humanism, logic etc. I find this suspect:

        “I’m not trying to persuade you of anything, because I already know you are immune to logic, truth, or any sense of honor.”

        Actually, you know nothing of the sort. You’ve never met me. You’ve traded several brief messages with me. And nowhere in our exchange is there sufficient information for you to deduce that. You’re just looking for a flame war.

        And then this:

        “I’m just putting you and all other Mormons on notice now and forever that your bullcrap will not stand with me. Get over it! ”

        I’m sorry, but what? I didn’t come knocking on your door, I didn’t track you down and throw a tract in your face. You came here and picked a fight with me. If you don’t want someone’s “bullcrap” (you’re quite the wordsmith, there) to “not stand” with you… then don’t go picking fights. Just mind your own business. Like most everyone else does.

        And now. I am over it. Bye. Go try bullying someone else. Get back to me if you have any interest in actually arranging a face to face meeting.

        You lack tact, civility and dignity. And you really could also do with a better vocabulary. Not exactly a selling point for whatever it is that you’re selling.

        January 5, 2014 at 8:08 am

  9. Hey, Bugging Moe, I gave you an award bouquet on my blog because I like your spark – you don’t have to follow the rules, just wanted to let you know you are doing great work!

    May 3, 2013 at 12:42 am

    • That’s very much appreciated, fabryhistory. Thank you.

      May 4, 2013 at 4:35 pm

      • You can call me Tara, and you’re welcome! I am an escapee from the Christian religion, but it could have easily been Mormonism, had I been born in Utah or Idaho.

        May 4, 2013 at 4:47 pm

  10. Pingback: More Mormon Idiocy | Dale Husband's Intellectual Rants

  11. Judy's Mom

    I feel sad that you were so hurt by those who should have helped you at a crucial time in your life. I’ve often been glad I didn’t join the LDS Church until after I was “of age” and out of the home because it would have been very difficult for me to separate the imperfections of my Dad from the “priesthood” he would have held as a member. I think It is traumatizing to be misunderstood and let down by leaders who we are “taught” to view and follow as the Lord’s servants, but are truly making mistakes. What do you think it would take to heal the wounding you received? I’m so sorry you were so wounded by those who should have been your friends.

    January 6, 2014 at 5:34 am

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